Cocoa Blogs RSS for Site Supporters
(Update: I think there's been some confusion. The feed does not "cost" $21. The feed is my way of doing something nice for the people that have generously donated to Cocoa Dev Central. The same information in the feed is available for free on the web site, which is exactly the same system that Daring Fireball uses for the Linked List. If anyone still feels strongly that this is unfair, email me and I'll try to understand your viewpoint better.)When Cocoa Blogs launched, there was precisely one person on the planet that didn't immediately email me asking about an RSS feed, and that's just because he was busy blogging about MacHeist at the time. A feed has obvious value, but it's a bit more complicated than it may seem. Update: Added some info on pricing.
My feeling was that if I launched the site and immediately made an RSS feed available, most people would just subscribe to the feed and be done with it. The site then just becomes a faceless link vending machine, which I don't think is very interesting.
The solution I decided on is something very similar to the Daring Fireball model: an authenticated feed. The plan is that you make a donation of at least $21 to Cocoa Dev Central, you'll get an account and can click your way to Cocoa happiness.
I think of this as a compromise. I'd prefer people come to the site and get the whole picture of the Cocoa community, but I understand that's not always efficient. So instead, you can make a donation to get direct access to the content, thereby supporting other Cocoa-related projects, including Theocacao. I think everyone wins.
I also think if I had launched the RSS feed alongside the site immediately, I'm not sure visitors would have necessarily "gotten" it. They'd look blankly at the site and wonder why I was asking for donations for a link vending machine.
As people have spent some time on the site, hopefully they've realized it's not just a laundry list of sites that mention "Cocoa" somewhere in their pages. It's a carefully-selected collection of people and individuals posts, designed to make it as easy as possible to find current and relevant Cocoa topics in just a few moments.
In other words, I don't just blindly grab links and post them. I do a ton of reading, finding things that are useful and accurate and do my best to sum up the relevance of each one in a few words.
Getting an Account
I've already created accounts for a small group of very special people, and I'm going to open it up to a few more folks now. If both of the following are true:
1. You've made a donation of at least $21 to Cocoa Dev Central
2. You'll willing to temporarily tolerate some beta-ish behavior (changed URLs, unavailability)
...send me an email to request an account. I might cap it off somewhere around fifty for the next several days, but that I think that limitation will quickly be eliminated. If I don't respond right away, that's probably why.
I also need to clarify that this is not purchasing a service. You're making a donation to Cocoa Dev Central which comes with this as a benefit at the moment. In other words, it's possible (though unlikely) that the feed may stop being updated at some point. The donation supports a number of different services. Just so that's clear.
Also, the feed has the added benefit of being a bit ahead of the site itself, at least for now. That is, items only show up on the home page once they've been added to the feed. That's not by design, just a side effect of the current system.
Cocoa Blogs RSS for Site Supporters
Posted Dec 19, 2006 — 18 comments below
Posted Dec 19, 2006 — 18 comments below
Michael Strck — Dec 19, 06 2752
Jesper — Dec 19, 06 2754
$21 is, to me, considered steep when explicably introduced here. At DF there's a large backlog of proven content and the option of getting a T-shirt (something tangible, in the extreme sense of the word).
The problem here is also that you *do* have a backlog. There are tutorials at Cocoa Dev Central that have saved my ass, and there are articles here that have been very interesting, but Cocoa Weblogs is an unproven card yet, although I like the beginning.
You're saying that it's all part of the same effort and I read that and I know that, but there's a mental disconnect between the sites making it harder to string it together. I would not take issue with donating $21 for CDC and Theocacao, but somehow you're making me have second thoughts about Cocoa Weblogs even though I know it's all going to the same place.
DF has the advantage of being able to provide a feed for free and offer an 'upgrade' to that - Cocoa Weblogs doesn't.
What would I do? I would lower the threshold to, say, $10. I would offer the feed free for one week for anyone who submitted their email and got a special token back. I would also move the focus of the donations from the individual CDC tutorials (I'm guessing it's there because most people won't go to the CDC front page, but frankly being met by the top form *before I've read the tutorial* seems cheap) and Cocoa Weblogs to some sort of umbrella drive. My instincts would be much more likely to say "that's low" and contribute $20-ish anyway than they are to do what I think most people will take away from this article, no matter how articulate your intentions - "contribute $21 for a feed".
Scott Stevenson — Dec 19, 06 2756
It actually seems to be working already, for what it's worth. :)
DF has the advantage of being able to provide a feed for free and offer an 'upgrade' to that - Cocoa Weblogs doesn't
There's no free version of the Linked List feed.
In my opinion, there's a ridiculous amount of content made available for free that I could realistically put behind a membership wall. That includes all of the Cocoa Dev Central articles, all of the Theocacao content, and everything on the Cocoa Blogs site.
The only thing that is walled off is a links feed, and the only reason that's walled off is to balance things out. That is, if it's going to be a link vending machine for some people, I'd at least like them to make a donation so I can fund other things.
Considering all of this, I think $21 is more than reasonable to ask for. In any case, you're not kept from anything important if you don't pay. The feed is simply a convenient "upgrade" perk/thank you for supporting a range of services which I think are worthwhile to support.
I'm pretty sure you don't personally disagree with any of this, but I just want to be clear for anyone reading the comments here. I do understand what you say about the three sites not appearing as connected as they could. Maybe there's something to be done there.
What would I do? I would lower the threshold to, say, $10
I don't think that's reasonable. Remember, this isn't like software where you have to purchase something to use it. People get the content first, then have the option to pay. If you had to pay before gaining access to everything, I'd be happy to lower it to $10 because the volume would more than make up for it.
I would also move the focus of the donations from the individual CDC tutorials
The reasoning for it being on the individual pages is so that you can effectively vote for what you want to see more of. It (unintentionally) happens this is the same premise as PBS: you pledge during the show you like.
but frankly being met by the top form *before I've read the tutorial* seems cheap
I think you might be misreading the intent. The idea is not to generate a payment right then, but to make it clear before you start reading that this took some real effort to create, and if you like it as you read along, a donation would be very much appreciated before you leave.
If I only put it at the end, a lot of people would never see it. Plenty of folks seem to learn things from a tutorial without reaching the end.
Cocoa Weblogs to some sort of umbrella drive
I think this makes sense, but the current solution is just that -- the current solution. Also, keep in mind that I'm mainly publicizing this on Theocacao at the moment, so I figure you guys follow the whole story more than the average person swinging by Cocoa Dev Central.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Max — Dec 19, 06 2757
Hawk — Dec 19, 06 2758
For example, just today, there was a discussion on #macdev, a legendary mac hacking chat room on IRC, where a bunch of people started discussing creating a competitor to DTS (where you pay to get help on specific cocoa or developer issues) and tie it into the chat room.
I.e., new people that would come into the room would be presented with a link where they could go to pay, before getting any of the precious people's time.
Blogs like this, and others want to get their share for new stuff they come up with. Etc.
I'm not saying it's inherently bad to charge money for things, I'm just a bit sad about where things seem to be going, because the mac community is something special in that it's not only about "putting food on the table" and "corporate services" to the left and right (like in the Windows world).
That personality is a great community where smart and creative help each other to improve an already-great platform.
Thanks,
Hawk
George Sudarkoff — Dec 19, 06 2759
I do see the opportunity for building an interesting community here. Community that will bring value to your project. But it takes months if not years for anything meaningful to form. And it takes A LOT of work. I would concentrate my efforts on that first, before impairing the access to something that doesn't even exist yet.
I have nothing against people trying to make some money on their expertise (if they have one - good for them). Even on other people's expertise (which takes some talent to implement). But it hurts to see silly suicidal entrepreneurs trying to scam a few hundred dollars (or a few hundred thousand dollars - it's all the same) out of a bunch of enthusiasts while permanently damaging their good name in the process. You fuck up once and nobody is going to look in your direction for the second time. Of course, you might think that making a few hundred thousand dollars is worth it. Well, it's your life.
Jan — Dec 19, 06 2760
Hawk: Making money off free content via donations is not a new concept and I don't see things going all commercial in the community. On the contrary, with people like Daniel Jalkud bothering others to blog about what they do, more, new content arrives every day — for free. And with Cocoa Blogs more developers get exposed to more blogs which in turn (maybe) encourages the writers to write more.
I can't see anything wrong with providing an RSS feed as a gesture for kind donators.
Anyway, when did you donate?
Scott Stevenson — Dec 19, 06 2761
I guess there's no avoiding that some people will see this as purchasing an RSS feed, but that's not the intention. I'm offering a ton of free content, and if you decide to support those efforts, this is a nice extra I can throw in.
I'll just add all the blogs to my RSS client, so you just lost a Reader, too bad
How is that possible? The feed didn't exist until today. Is it clear that this is the Cocoa Blogs feed, not Theocacao's feed?
@Hawk: I'm starting to see a trend here. After the MacHeist craze
This started long before MacHeist. Working on Cocoa Dev Central, Theocacao, Cocoa Blogs and so on takes vastly more time than I think most people realize. I truly enjoy doing it, but I have to do it at the exclusion of other work which pays.
So I basically left it in the hands of the community: I'll put as much into it as you guys do. The most awkward step was asking for donations, but once I got over that, things really picked up. It's no coincidence that you've seen more activity since I started actively soliciting donations.
suddenly most people that are in some way prominent in the mac community woke up and realize they can charge money for they do
Althought MacHeist isn't what made the difference in my case, I think it's a great thing that we realize Mac-specific businesses are viable. It's a lot better than spending 10 hours writing Windows code and trying to squeak in a few hours for Mac stuff on the weekends. We all benefit. I think it even allows outsiders to consider the Mac as a more serious venue to provide software and services.
I'm just a bit sad about where things seem to be going, because the mac community is something special in that it's not only about "putting food on the table" and "corporate services" to the left and right
I think you're taking it to an unrealistic extreme. It's shades of gray, right? Even though I charge for Cocoa mentoring, I spend an hour or so every day answering questions for free. It's not all or nothing. It's somewhere in between.
@George Sudarkoff: What exactly is the value that you're adding to the content that is already available for free elsewhere? We don't need another "dumb" aggregator, we're happy with our RSS readers for the most part.
I wish I could better understand where you're coming from on this. Maybe it's not clear the the feed is the result of a lot of reading and manual filtering on my part? It's not an automated aggregator.
I guess everyone would like everything for free, and that's nearly the case now. The only difference is I've added one extra service for people who actively support the sites I put time into. None of the sites even have ads, and the same information the feed has is available for free on the site. I don't see how that's unfair, but perhaps I'm missing your point.
To me, twenty-one dollars is a fanstic deal for the type of thing you're supporting. It's also one-quarter of my hourly rate for tutoring.
@George Sudarkoff: But it hurts to see silly suicidal entrepreneurs trying to scam a few hundred dollars (or a few hundred thousand dollars - it's all the same) out of a bunch of enthusiasts while permanently damaging their good name in the process
George, I'm sorry but I don't see how any of this applies to what I'm doing. It's not clear to me how providing huge amounts of technical documentation for free while giving one minor extra to those who offer donations does anything but build community. Feel free to email me directly if you'd like to discuss it further.
Jesper — Dec 19, 06 2762
Sure, sure. I'm just saying that putting the entire donation form there looks obtrusive. There are two points I'm arguing here: 1) A simple "If you enjoy this tutorial, you can always donate a few bucks. The complete instructions are at the bottom." with a link that either takes you there or moves the donation form up there would do a lot. 2) With the full donation form at the bottom, you're capturing those who read the full thing and are more likely to want to donate.
I'm also arguing that I am, probably, way more likely to donate $21 than the average visitor, I realize how much work there is to edit and pick nuggets from what has to be at least 50 weblogs (29 listed ones and surely a lot of candidates) on a regular basis, and *even so* I'm instinctively cringing at the coupling of $21 with this concept. I know that this is a whole deal, but it doesn't feel like it.
On further reflection, there are a lot of pans on the stove here: Theocacao, CDC, CB - why not ask for separate and smaller payments instead? The lower the initial cost, the more likely people are to chip in. Being able to spare $5 on four occasions is something I think people are willing to do more than paying $20 once.
Scott Stevenson — Dec 19, 06 2763
I know it seems counter-intuitive, but my experience is asking smaller individual payments seems to have the opposite effect.
The decision to donate is not based on "can I afford it?" Most people reading this can just as easily afford $21 as they can $5. If I ask for nearly nothing, then the expectation is that these sites don't really need financial support, which is wrong. If there is no financial support, they go into maintenance mode.
A sort of awkward metaphor for the donations is if you receive too much change from a cashier. If you walk out of the store and realize you have an extra $2, many people won't concern themselves with going back in. If you have an extra $20, you'll take it more seriously. Asking for two dollars sends the message "it really doesn't matter one way or another."
Now if you had to purchase content on Cocoa Dev Central or Theocacao, I agree a smaller payment would work better because there's something you cannot get access to unless you pay. The current solution is a compromise which takes a surprising large number of competing factors into account (forgoing billiable time, bandwidth, answering emails, and so on).
I think the main thing I take away from what you've said is that I'll need to make it more clear that the donation is effectively destined for all three sites.
Jesper — Dec 19, 06 2764
George Sudarkoff — Dec 19, 06 2765
As for the filtering aspect of your project - for some reason it was not clear to me that this is what you're doing. If this is the case, than it is a fantastic idea and you absolutely have the right to charge for that!
Chris Ryland — Dec 19, 06 2767
Chuck — Dec 19, 06 2768
Scott Stevenson — Dec 19, 06 2770
The posts section is just one element of the site, and I want people to get the full experience whenever possible.
Kenneth Ballenegger — Dec 20, 06 2771
Blain — Dec 20, 06 2773
Scott Stevenson — Dec 20, 06 2774
So you're the one who didn't email me.